Emerson Exchange 365

Terminal server installation after DeltaV

In versions prior to 11.3, it was stated in XP_Help.chm that the terminal services role must be installed before installation of DeltaV.  

I'm looking at the Windows Server 2008 Operating System Manual Installation Document referenced in AK-1000-0092

ftp.emersonprocess.com/.../Win_Server_2008_manual_installation.pdf

While it mentions that domain controller role should be established prior to DeltaV installation, it makes no mention of terminal server role installation prior to DeltaV installation.

Is it still true that I cannot install terminal services role on top of DeltaV?  This becomes tricky when the Pro-Plus is my intended terminal server.  

The customer only needs two professional station remote clients to connect to this server, so the plan is within the recommendations on terminal servers.  

Youssef.El-Bahtimy

• 23 Jan 2013 4:57 PM
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16 Replies

• BobHuba

  

  • 23 Jan 2013 9:30 PM

  Please refer this question to the Global Support Center to obtain the current situation.

  I believe that the TS role must be there when DeltaV is installed so that DeltaV will make the proper connections to the TS role as it is installed.

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• AdrianOffield

  

  • 24 Jan 2013 3:32 AM

  Good question, and I’ve got a couple of customers that could also benefit from using the PRO+ as a TS, but the thought of re-installing DV is holding back the TS installation.

   

  It seems Emerson keeps directing community questions to GSC, I’m not sure why this is, but Emerson fails to realize that not all of our questions are related to specific system; not all questions will have a system ID to attribute it to!

   

  Anyhow, if you don’t mind, keep us posted on what you find out.

   

   

  From: Youssef.El-Bahtimy [mailto:bounce-YoussefEl-Bahtimy@community.emerson.com]
  Sent: Wednesday, January 23, 2013 8:57 PM
  To: DeltaV@community.emerson.com
  Subject: [EE365 DeltaV Track] Terminal server installation after DeltaV

   

  In versions prior to 11.3, it was stated in XP_Help.chm that the terminal services role must be installed before installation of DeltaV.  

  I'm looking at the Windows Server 2008 Operating System Manual Installation Document referenced in AK-1000-0092

  ftp.emersonprocess.com/.../Win_Server_2008_manual_installation.pdf

  While it mentions that domain controller role should be established prior to DeltaV installation, it makes no mention of terminal server role installation prior to DeltaV installation.

  Is it still true that I cannot install terminal services role on top of DeltaV?  This becomes tricky when the Pro-Plus is my intended terminal server.  

  The customer only needs two professional station remote clients to connect to this server, so the plan is within the recommendations on terminal servers.  

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• Lucho

  

  • 24 Jan 2013 10:02 AM

  It´s necessary install the TS without DeltaV.

   

  From: AdrianOffield [mailto:bounce-AdrianOffield@community.emerson.com]
  Sent: jueves, 24 de enero de 2013 01:33 a.m.
  To: DeltaV@community.emerson.com
  Subject: RE: [EE365 DeltaV Track] Terminal server installation after DeltaV

   

  Good question, and I’ve got a couple of customers that could also benefit from using the PRO+ as a TS, but the thought of re-installing DV is holding back the TS installation.

   

  It seems Emerson keeps directing community questions to GSC, I’m not sure why this is, but Emerson fails to realize that not all of our questions are related to specific system; not all questions will have a system ID to attribute it to!

   

  Anyhow, if you don’t mind, keep us posted on what you find out.

   

   

  From: Youssef.El-Bahtimy [mailto:bounce-YoussefEl-Bahtimy@community.emerson.com]
  Sent: Wednesday, January 23, 2013 8:57 PM
  To: DeltaV@community.emerson.com
  Subject: [EE365 DeltaV Track] Terminal server installation after DeltaV

   

  In versions prior to 11.3, it was stated in XP_Help.chm that the terminal services role must be installed before installation of DeltaV.  

  I'm looking at the Windows Server 2008 Operating System Manual Installation Document referenced in AK-1000-0092

  ftp.emersonprocess.com/.../Win_Server_2008_manual_installation.pdf

  While it mentions that domain controller role should be established prior to DeltaV installation, it makes no mention of terminal server role installation prior to DeltaV installation.

  Is it still true that I cannot install terminal services role on top of DeltaV?  This becomes tricky when the Pro-Plus is my intended terminal server.  

  The customer only needs two professional station remote clients to connect to this server, so the plan is within the recommendations on terminal servers.  

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• Pat Grider

  

  • 24 Jan 2013 10:15 AM

  In reply to AdrianOffield:

  This is a Windows thing.

  From Microsoft:

  "You should add the Terminal Server role before you install the programs that you want users to access. If there are programs already installed on the computer, you might have to reinstall them to ensure that they work correctly in the Terminal Server environment."

  technet.microsoft.com/.../cc779334(v=WS.10).aspx

  I'm sure BobHuba's note was directed more toward ensuring the GSC hears from a user that GSC screwed up AK-1000-0092

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• Youssef.El-Bahtimy

  

  • 25 Jan 2013 2:33 PM

  In reply to Pat Grider:

  Thanks everyone for your replies.  Uninstalling DeltaV looks like a requirement, but will be less of a certainty in this case.

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• Ben Bishop

  

  • 28 Jan 2013 2:01 PM

  In reply to Youssef.El-Bahtimy:

  For a ProPlus to serve Remote Sessions, it must be set during Workstation Configuration.  The Terminal Server role must be installed prior to running Workstation Configuration.  You do not need to uninstall DeltaV to enable the Terminal Server role, but you must rerun Workstation Configuration if you did not initially configure the ProPlus as a remote client server.  Rerunning Workstation Configuration on an existing ProPlus is discouraged, however.

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• Kartik29

  

  • 24 Jan 2017 4:59 AM

  In reply to Ben Bishop:

  I'm trying to understand how the Remote client session works:-
  i'm having a proplus without terminal server licenses and i want to setup an 8 engineers remote client sessions to do the engineering(database configuration,graphics configuration) activities(inhouse development not on the site requirement).Could you please let know is this achievable with one terminal server installed on the Proplus ? or i need two terminal servers ? or any other suggestions please.

  Karma doesn't have any menu, you get serve what you deserve.

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• Alexandre Peixoto

  

  • 24 Jan 2017 12:24 PM

  In reply to Kartik29:

  A ProfessionalPlus is able to be a Remote Desktop Server and host up to seven concurrent remote sessions, but if the ProfessionalPlus is used for local engineering tasks it will impact performance of the remote sessions. Moreover, and security wise, exposing the ProfessionalPlus server to external networks is not recommended and should be avoided if possible.
  
  With that said and understanding you probably have more than just the ProfessionalPlus in your system, I'd recommend a dedicated DeltaV Server with the Remote Dekstop Server role enabled, which can deliver the best user experience and maximum tested remote session experience. This approach also allows for scalability once you are ready to add more users/sessions and/or consider different use cases for the remote connectivity.
  
  Additional information can be found in the DeltaV Remote Client product data sheet, as well as Books-On-Line.
  
  I hope this helps!
  
  Alexandre Peixoto

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• ElvinVargas

  

  • 24 Jan 2017 2:16 PM

  You can always purchase a New DeltaV Base Station, added to your system and used exclusively as a Terminal Server. In that way dont need to touch your Pro+. The Base Station are usually much less expensive. Im currently using this solution and have four sessions working great. You can add as much TS cals as needed to issue the remote desktop certificates.
  
  Regards,
  
  Elvin Vargas

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• Andre Dicaire

  

  • 24 Jan 2017 4:04 PM

  In reply to Kartik29:

  Hmm How does Remote Client Session work:
  
  DeltaV Remote Client is layered on Microsoft RDS (formerly called Terminal Server). The RDS role is enabled in the OS. It also requires a license server to administer the TS cals that are required. Any server OS can act as a Remote Desktop server, however, in DeltaV, you must license the server as a workstation to allow the sessions to run DeltaV applications like Control Studio, Explorer or Operate. In addition to setting up the server correctly, you also have to license the computer as a DeltaV node to allow the Remote Client sessions to be configured. Without these licensed sessions, users would not be able to launch DeltaV applications in a remote desktop session.
  
  The Professional Plus supports remote client sessions and is tested for use with a maximum number which has changed over time so confirm the capacity limits for your version. The Base Station license is recommended for additional RD servers since the local session on a server has limitations on number and size of screen as well as not supporting a sound card.
  
  Microsoft does not recommend running additional roles like RDS on a server acting as the Domain Controller. As Alex explained, connecting the domain controller to additional networks can create attack vectors to the system and is a cyber security risk.
  
  Then there is the matter of performance of the server in its primary role as configuration database server. This is a function of the Server CPU and Disk speed, as well as installed memory. Although new R730 servers have increased CPU capacity, the individual CPU clock speed is the primary factor in database performance as the Database Server will bind to one processor core. Secondly, the size of the database and level of activity (concurrent users) will cause the database cache to grow, and the installed memory and disk speed will eventually have an impact on database responsiveness. With v12 and the support of 64 bit OS, the installed memory on the server is no longer limited to 4K for windows Server Standard.
  
  So if you are going to run Remote client sessions from the Pro Plus, you should add RAM to the Server to avoid excessive disk caching (different than database caching). Servers come with Raid 0 or RAID 10 disk drive arrays. The Pro Plus is recommended to have the fastest disk access speed so the database is able to complete writes as quickly as possible.
  
  For v11, a high performance server was specified that increased the installed RAM, used a faster CPU clock speed, used faster Disk drives and used Windows Enterprise edition that made use of the extra memory. V11 only ran on 32 Bit OS so the Enterprise edition was required .
  
  As of v12 with SErver 2008R2, the 64 bit OS removes the 4Gig limit on memory access, which was a primary source of performance pain due to disk caching, which was dependent on disk speed.
  
  So if you have a small to medium DeltaV database (500 to 3000 DST), you can consider adding RDS to the Pro Plus, but be sure you've considered the cyber security concerns. One rule is you should not access the Pro Plus with a remote desk top session using an administrator account. Administration tasks should be done locally or through a more secure interface.
  
  To access the RDS, and run DeltaV applications, DeltaV adds a layer of security that is defined in the Remote Client section of the server configuration. Each Remote Client Session is licensed for its DeltaV use (Professional, Operator, Maintenance, Base). Each also has a span of controlled based on the assigned Plant Areas. Each session can have different plant Areas, which can be different from the base station it is running on.
  
  Note: You must add plant areas to each session. I've caught myself on this repeatedly, assigning areas to the Pro Plus, but forgetting the remote client sessions, and then being unable to write to parameters or not getting alarms. Then I eventually remember to assign the area and everything works. :-)
  
  The Remote Client session also allows you to restrict users or computers that can access the defined sessions. This allows you to reserve sessions for individuals or for specific remote stations. Unrestricted sessions can be used by anyone from any station as long as they have a valid logon account.
  
  When you launch a remote session, the session is managed by Windows OS, and is assigned memory and consumes CPU. If the station is used for DeltaV Operate, all sessions on that computer connect to the DeltaV communication layer and create a cumulative communication load. This, in my opinion, forms the basic limit on number of concurrent sessions. If you exceed the permitted number of Object ID's allotted to the computer, the application may not be able to get all the data requested. Again, system capacity limits for RDS or Terminal Servers will indicate recommended limits.
  
  Engineering sessions connect using Windows DCOM to the Database Server. In the RD session, you run the client application like Explorer or Control Studio, and these connect to the Database server. The database has a limit of 60 concurrent connections. The DeltaV System therefore limits the number of Pro Licenses to 10, allowing for 4 sessions of control studio, Explorer, in addition to the Pro plus user. In reality, you can have more users as long the total concurrent sessions to the database does not exceed 60.
  
  When you connect with RDP, you get a Windows Desktop session. To gain access to DeltaV applications, you then need to connect to a DeltaV session. This gets you the privileges assigned to you in DeltaV. It is sort of when you logon to a computer at Windows, and then at DeltaV. If you have Flexlock enabled, then the RDP session is locked until the DeltaV logon is provided. If you don't have the RDS setup and licensed, you can still open an RDP session with an Administrator account, but will not be able to login to a DeltaV session and run the apps.
  
  Sorry for the long post, but I don't have time to optimize it :-)

  Andre Dicaire

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• Rachelle McWright

  

  • 24 Jan 2017 8:18 PM

  In reply to AdrianOffield:

  Great comment and thanks for the opportunity to provide some clarification on our various platforms, @Adrian.

  Emerson recognizes that peer-to-peer collaboration and support is critical in the automation industry. This is why we hold the annual Emerson Global Users Exchange AND why we created the EE365 community which offers many of the same benefits (such as the opportunity to solve problems, learn best practices and connect to industry experts) 365 days a year!*

  Generally, when members suggest contacting the Guardian Support Center (aka: GSC), it is because they believe a user can be more efficiently helped if Emerson is able to understand the specifics of their situation (such as detailed fail points, system components, organizational or environmental limitations or other potentially-proprietary inforrnation). We've also seen community members request help with potentially-critical issues which should be addressed via our official support channels.**

  Our goal in providing multiple resources is to be accessible to customers of all levels, in all locations and with differing communication preferences  Ultimately, there are unique benefits to all of these Emerson resources and we hope customers will use one or more that best fit their specific needs.

  *Emerson can and does not guarantee that information posted in EE365, a peer-to-peer community, will be timely or accurate. 
  **Guardian Support is a paid support service.

  Best Regards,

  Rachelle McWright: Business Development Manager, Dynamic Simulation: U.S. Gulf Coast

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• Kartik29

  

  • 25 Jan 2017 6:24 AM

  In reply to Andre Dicaire:

  Thanks Alex,Elvin,Andre.
  
  From your post it is clear that the Proplus should be at its optimum performance level when remote sessions are being utilised(fully occupied) as explained by Andre from hardware and MS point of view.I never knew that DeltaV Operate will consume more more memory than Deltav explorer.
  
  Considering the above points, the architecture i have considered is '1 Proplus' with 2 Operator Station(will be installed as Remote client server) on the proplus network, each operator station will have 5 tcals license(Device type),hence i will have at maximum 8 sessions considering both operator stations. I believe this will not add communication loading on the network and slowing down the things when "Save" button is hit on the deltav explorer control studio or deltav operate. The operator station will be installed on windows 2k8 server,i hope this is not mandate,can i use windows 7 or XP ?
  
  Elvin, does base station works similar to operator station, my concern is from the configuration point of view.ANy major difference from Base station and Operator Station.
  
  Once again thank you so much for the detailed reply.
  
  Bookmarked this page!!!

  Karma doesn't have any menu, you get serve what you deserve.

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• Alexandre Peixoto

  

  • 25 Jan 2017 1:19 PM

  In reply to Kartik29:

  Kartik29,
  
  In this case, the Base Station will basically be a server-type machine with Remote Desktop Services enabled and running DeltaV software on it to serve the remote sessions to the remote clients you are planning to enable in your system. Configuration wise, it is a no-brainer, as it will show up in DeltaV Explorer as an Operator Station. To enable the Remote Desktop Service you will need to have a compatible Windows Server O/S on this specific station, and all this should be put in place prior to installing DeltaV on the selected node.
  
  I concur with all other comments shared here, and I still feel like the dedicated DeltaV server node to handle the remote sessions is the best way to go. As already leveraged by Rachelle yesterday, you can get support from GSC if you feel it is needed.
  
  Regards,
  
  Peixe

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• ElvinVargas

  

  • 25 Jan 2017 3:25 PM

  In reply to Kartik29:

  Kartik29,
  
  Like explained by Alexandre Peixoto, the Base Station for me is a cleaner solution in the term that can be added easily as another node just dedicated to being your Terminal Server, the base station will not do anything besides that because is the more basic node license on DeltaV. Then you need to assign all your session licenses to the base station. In my case, I have 2 Operator and 2 Professional stations assign to it, and I can use them to do engineering work remotely, troubleshooting of support. The solution was implemented by Emerson Engineers around 2 years ago and no issues since then. It makes it easier also to work with the remote do administration, because you can assign and revoke the Microsoft certificates in case the remote sections you use normally change, example, when you have a contractor, do it work remotely or you change your device used for the RDP.
  
  Also if your take the DeltaV system administration class they talk about this points.
  
  Best Regards,
  
  Elvin

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• Kartik29

  

  • 27 Jan 2017 4:45 AM

  In reply to Alexandre Peixoto:

  Thanks Alexandre Peixoti for clearing my doubts and definitely will be a big 'Yes' to have a seperate deltav server node to handle remote sessions.
  
  Thanks Elvin, i will check with Base station too.
  
  Will keep an update here as things progress.

  Karma doesn't have any menu, you get serve what you deserve.

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