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Ignoring blue triangles after change of area

I want to rationalise the number of areas in the plant configuration. To do so I intend to transfer all the modules in an area to another existing area then delete the original area. I have done this on a development system then performed a download of setup data. The transferred modules seem to behave as though they are now in the new area ie alarms and security are as appropriate for the new area. However the modules are tagged with blue triangles which can only be cleared by downloading the modules. When I do this on site I don't want to download the modules. The question is whether it is safe to just download setup data and not the individual modules.

I appreciate that the reason the blue triangles appear is because, as Andre Dicaire explained in another post:

Changing the assigned Area, Description, Control Display, Instrument Display or Detail Display will set the module change flag and requires a module download to clear.  These fields are part of the module download script to the controller, in addition to being part of the setup data sent to all workstations.

The Setup data allows each console to work with a module, knowing where it is in the system, what area it belongs to for security locks, and what to display in the faceplate and alarm system fields, as well as which displays are assigned.  

I don't know if this information was always part of the module script or if this was added when Zones was introduced.  Local modules are defined in the system setup data, but remote modules in other zones are not.  For a workstation to properly handle the Area, displays and description, the information needs to be provided at runtime, and this is likely why the data is now in the modules.  In any case, changing these fields will set the download flag and a module download is needed to clear the flag.

However the question is whether the system makes any use of the information in the module, or always uses the workstation setup data. Sometime ago I changed some descriptions without downloading the modules and there doesn't seem to have been any unforseen consequences, but changing the area is more significant.

Cedric Dawnhawk

• 11 Apr 2019 12:08 PM
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5 Replies

• Cperkins85

  

  • 11 Apr 2019 1:32 PM

  The one issue I've had in having modules moved to another area without downloading them has been alarming. In my instance, I was transferring to an area that was under a different person's responsibility. The result was that one person would get the alarm, but couldn't acknowledge the alarm, and the other person wouldn't get the alarm, but was the one that could acknowledge it.
  
  I believe, that if both of your proposed areas are under the same person/workstation's responsibility that there shouldn't be any functional repercussion. Naturally best practice would be to download them as soon as reasonable though.

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• Cedric Dawnhawk

  

  • 11 Apr 2019 3:35 PM

  In reply to Cperkins85:

  Thanks, that's very helpful. I'll see if I can confirm it on the development system. However I think on site, the areas to be combined are assigned to the same group of users so it shouldn't be a problem.

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• Jason.Brumfield

  

  • 12 Apr 2019 7:38 PM

  The problem will be if you have a system flooded with blue triangles, it will be more difficult to identify when a module actually contains a change that needs downloading. Additionally, when/if you do an upgrade, the LBP or Emerson will normally be apprehensive. Depending on how you have certain parameters set, downloading AI & DI modules that are indication only is not really that big of deal. For controllers & interlocks, it will require a little more effort & checking to ensure no disruption in control, but is very doable. My opinion is that it is not best practice to leave the modules not downloaded because in the future, identifying what really needs downloading will be less obvious. Good luck!

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• Cedric Dawnhawk

  

  • 13 Apr 2019 11:29 AM

  In reply to Jason.Brumfield:

  Thanks for the warning. I appreciate that it is not an ideal long-term solution to leave a lot of outstanding blue triangles. I intend to download the modules but at a future date when the plant is shutdown or idle.

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• Cedric Dawnhawk

  

  • 13 Apr 2019 11:33 AM

  In reply to Cperkins85:

  I have tried to reproduce the problem you experienced on my development system by moving a module from an area under control of one user to an area under control of another, and only downloading the setup data. However it seemed to work as expected, ie the new 'owner' could see and acknowledge the alarms whilst the old owner couldn't. However I will look out for this problem on site.

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