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Delta-V communication with Siemens PN/PN Coupler

Hi all,

Has any used a Siemens PN/PN coupler to communicate with a Delta-V Ver 13 system?

we are having a packaged plant delivered to site and it is controller by a Siemens S7-1500 CPU, the supplier of the equipment has a PN/PN coupler to allow data to be transferred to/from our system, but I am wondering what hardware on the Delta-V end I would need and what is the recommended paractise do i need a VIM for example?

Any advice here would be greatly appreciated as in the past we have either used a serial link (which is not available) to communicate with other PLC's on the ste.

Thanks

GaryL

GaryL

• 2 Aug 2021 3:46 PM
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9 Replies

• Tinh Phan

  

  • 2 Aug 2021 5:26 PM

  Hi GaryL,

  You might want to reach out to New England Control (neci.com) for help to identify the right solution for this integration using the coupler.  NECI is an Emerson Impact Partner that can support you in New England area.

  I would look at using the Emerson DeltaV S-series Virtual I/O Module 2 to connect to the PN/PN coupler.  the VIM2 has the capability to connect to PROFINET data exchange to DeltaV but I don't know if this the solution for what you need.  The other option is if the PN/PN Coupler can transpose the PROFINET device data into Serial data then you will be able to send that data into the DeltaV system using their Serial Card or VIM.

  Here is the link for S-series Virtual I/O Module 2 product datasheet (VIM2):

  chrome-extension://efaidnbmnnnibpcajpcglclefindmkaj/viewer.html?pdfurl=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.emerson.com%2Fdocuments%2Fautomation%2Fproduct-data-sheet-s-series-virtual-i-o-module-2-deltav-en-57730.pdf&clen=806077&chunk=true 

  Hope this helps,

  Tinh

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• RobPerry

  

  • 2 Aug 2021 8:36 PM

  In reply to Tinh Phan:

  Gary,
  When you set up the Profinet VIM with VimNet Explorer and the coupler's GSDML file don't forget the slots on the DeltaV side need to be the opposite sense to those on the S7-1500 side. If the PLC side is set up as Slot 1 = 64 bytes IN, Slot 2 = 32 bytes OUT your VIM config is Slot 1 = 64 bytes OUT and Slot 2 = 32 bytes IN. The S7-1500 and VIM are both Profinet masters on their respective networks that see their side of the coupler as a slave. VimNet Explorer help explains the parameters quite well.
  I also find it useful to have a way of looking into the PLC registers to make sure sense, byte order and datatype are being interpretted correctly on the DeltaV side where you can use the VIM diagnostics. If its not in the package you'll need a computer with Siemens TIA-Portal to do this.
  As Tinh mentioned, don't forget you can also look at a serial/Profinet converter like Anybus or ProSoft to talk to the coupler but those bring their own lssues.
  Good luck!
  
  Rob

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• GaryL

  

  • 3 Aug 2021 9:53 AM

  Hi Gents,
  
  Thank you very much for the advice. looks like the VIM2 seams to be the option to look at, I will have a look at the link you sent Tinh and take it a bit further......

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• GaryL

  

  • 3 Aug 2021 4:26 PM

  Rob/Tinh,
  
  I have looked at the product data sheet for the VIM2 and it looks like what I need. From this document I can see that there are 2x RJ45 connections on the VIM2 (1x for VIMNet I assume this is my connection to my PLC(s) (I guess I can plug this into a network switch and have multiple PLC's connected in the switch to access data from them all?) and 1x redundancy link which speaks for its self).
  
  What I don't seam to understand is how the unit connects to the DeltaV Prim/Secondary networks, does this unit along with its own PSU on its own 2-wide carrier connect to the Left hand side of the 2-wide carrier that contains the PSU and the controller (I assume this is the same for M & S series), or is there a way to have this as a stand along unit, i.e. is there an interconnection cable (similar to the carrier connection cables) i could use if i am limited on space on the left side of the controller?
  
  I know this would be an expensive way of doing it but I could have my VIM2 & PSU with its own Controller & PSU in its own panel and any future PLCs we add could be connected to here (to a maximum of 96 devices) in a simplex setup?

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• RobPerry

  

  • 3 Aug 2021 9:56 PM

  In reply to GaryL:

  Gary,
  The VIM communicates to the controller through the backplane so the normal installation is in a 2-wide to the left of the controller(s). Each 2-wide is a VIM + PSU and the VIMs can be redundant. I am almost sure you cannot use a cable to extend the backplane for this.
  
  If you have any upgrade plans, the PK controller (> v14) is going to have a native Profinet connection very soon (I am counting on it for a project) but its detailed specs are not yet clear.
  
  You also need to check on Profinet redundancy options if you use more than one VIM or in the future redundant PK controllers. A Profinet device needs to support "S2 Redundancy" to switch from one master (e.g. DeltaV Primary) to another with a different MAC or IP address (e.g. DeltaV Secondary). The Siemens PN/PN coupler is handy as it can work as S2 on one side only so non-S2 devices can be connected to redundant masters on the other. Again, this is only when you have redundant masters like a DeltaV Primary/Secondary controller pair. For a single VIM there is no issue.
  All the best.

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• Tinh Phan

  

  • 4 Aug 2021 2:52 AM

  In reply to RobPerry:

  Rob is correct on the VIM installation with the two wides to DeltaV backplane. Please work with NEC an Emerson Impact Partner to put together a good architecture for this solution. They have great resources working with Emerson SME

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• Chris Dahl

  

  • 14 Sep 2021 7:01 PM

  Has anyone be able to communicate to the VIM2 (with Profinet Driver) to a Siemens S7-1500 CPU that is acting as an I/O controller [with IO/Profinet slave devices] without the use of a PN/PN coupler via configuration as an I-Device?
  
  Per documentation, you should be able setup an S7 as an I-Device and it can remain as I/O controller to its IO devices, but also transmit data to higher level IO Controllers (in this case the VIM2).
  
  All the example configurations I have seen for doing this, is between two Siemens CPUs. I have a pretty good idea of the configuration on both the PLC and deltav/vimnet side on how to accomplish this, but I'm a bit concerned about the actual profinet setup. In all the PLC-PLC examples, the profinet configuration is done in the TIA portal projects. In the case of the VIM2, I don't do that configuration on the TIA project, but rather create transfer areas and export the GSDML file, import the GSDML file in VIMNET configuration side, and it will magically work without any additional outside profinet configuration? I'm going to give it a go, just was wondering if anyone had tried this or had any additional input on whether I-device setup works with the VIM2 profinet driver.
  
  cache.industry.siemens.com/.../109478798_config_idevice_standard_DOCU_V1d0_en.pdf
  
  mall.industry.siemens.com/.../10239949

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• Chris Dahl

  

  • 17 Sep 2021 7:37 PM

  In reply to Chris Dahl:

  I have confirmed VIM works as IO controller to a PLC setup with I-Device function.
  
  Basically, you configure the Project like in this safety plc example "across projects", where you create a dummy PLC/network, create transfer areas, delete dummy PLC, compile, export GSD, Load, and do the vim config. Also, make sure to use addresses outside of typical hardware addressable space. I was getting issues on PLC project when I was using lower address numbers (even when they weren't assigned to hardware).
  
  I-device setup will work as long as PLC supports it and the PLC/VIM are in same subnet. Otherwise, the PN/PN coupler is required. The I-device setup is arguably simpler on both TIA Portal and vimnet vs PN/PN coupler. I would recommend it if device supports it.

  https://cache.industry.siemens.com/dl/files/798/109478798/att_992839/v2/109478798_config_idevice_safety_DOC_V22_en.pdf

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• Chris Dahl

  

  • 29 Sep 2021 4:31 PM

  In reply to Chris Dahl:

  I just want to add to this as a follow up. I was able to get the I-device function to work in a lab/test setup, but I was not able to get the profinet to vim to function on the customers PLC program. I'm thinking perhaps that there was some bug with the version of TIA portal the project was using and/or the latest firmware. I didn't try upgrading VIM firmware or PLC project to TIA 17, but that was the next step in troubleshooting.
  
  Instead, I was able to program the PLC to use Modbus of Profinet as a Modbus Slave to a customers existing PK controllers modbus port (TCP Client). As a note, I had to use the same instance of the MB_CLIENT in the PLC, and toggle which one was active from scan to scan in order for the read/write operations to both complete successfully. Using separate instanced didn't work out well for me and even if I could get it to work, based on input from Siemens tech support, would consume 2 separate TCP connections. I would consider this as a real solution for anyone considering talking profinet IO on a S7-1200/1500 to DeltaV. It is basically FREE if you have a PK controller and S7-1200/1500. No additional VIM/drivers/VIMNET setup/etc... its a simpler solution and in my case, worked out of the box much easier than the VIM2.

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