Low bleed DVC6200 positioners on double acting piston actuators fitted with booster relays

I am using DVC6200 positioners with low bleed relays in control service. The positioners are mounted on fairly large double acting piston actuators (flowserve size 100 actuators) where fast stroking speeds (1" per sec) have been specified. As such, booster relays have been installed to achieve the stroke rate.

The standard tune set has delivered very poor results for valve dynamic movement, so manual tuning is in progress. By screwing in the booster gain screws to about 1/4 open, and increasing gain to 12, some improvement is made, but unless the boosters fire, valve response to control changes of less than 4% is still very poor. 

I will be reducing booster gain screws more (1/8 turn) to try to get the boosters to fire on smaller control changes, but suspect that I will still be stuck with very poor dynamics when the valve is modulating.  Should I be replacing the log gain relays in the DVCs with standard relays, and if so, can I expect much improvement.

in that the stroke speed requirment is more than necessary for many of the valves, I am considering removing the boosters and living with slower response, but hopefully better modulating performance.

I cant find the maximum air output from the low bleed relay to understand how much less air it is likely to move than the standard relay when in modulating service.

This is quite an urgent query, so any response would be greatly received.

JR

  • Jeff,

    Here is a great response to this matter: www.google.com/.../ If you are using a double acting piston relay A will be needed and adjusted correctly, during the setup process it will ask if you have boosters, select yes and follow the handheld’s prompts for proper setup please.

    If you need further help please call your local sales office and they can assist in ensuring that given your specific combination of components you get the speed you desire; if you know what speed you want to achieve along with this information they can perform a stroking speed calculation and ensure each component you have is capable of delivering what you want or get you hardware that can. In some cases we highly recommend going with an ODV (Optimised Digitial Valve) assembly package but please discuss this with your sales office: www3.emersonprocess.com/.../Default.aspx

    Thanks,

    Richie

    Richard L Ritter III, PMP, MBA | Technology Specialist - Reliability Services | Final Control

    Emerson Automation Solutions

    Richard.Ritter@Emerson.com

  • In reply to Richard L Ritter III:

    Hi Richard, Thanks for the response. Yes we have done as you suggest, but basically, if the boosters dont fire, then the valves barely move at all. We have screwed in the booster gain screws to get the boosters to fire with even small movements, down to 3% step changes, and increased the gain and MLFB to increase sensitivity while trying to maximmise stability (gain of 12, MLFB of 70). So, above 3%, valve travel is ok, but below 3%, the valve takes about 2 minutes to travel, if it travels at all.
    I am wandering if it is the fault of the low bleed relay installed in the DVC6200.
    Will try opening up the booster gain screw again so I can achieve higher DV6200 gains and get better sensitivity at low step changes.
    Any thoughts are welcome.

    JR
  • In reply to jeff richards:

    Jeff,

    The low bleed relays significantly reduce the Cv of your assembly thus taking the valve offline and replacing the low bleed relay with a relay A and recalibrating the valve using a hand held should improve your response but you will sacrifice speed for a bit of accuracy and should expect a bit of overshoot but it will come back to a steady state eventually. During the recalibration process the handheld will have you back out the deadband volume adjust to your boosters (screws with nuts). Please smite to follow all safety warning and ensure this is done with an offline setup so no injury occurs as per the DVC6200 instruction manual. If there is a handwheel maybe you can adjust it to override the position we or bypass around it if a bypass valve is present otherwise please take it offline while swapping a relay A in. Thanks Jeff and stay safe!

    Richie

    Richard L Ritter III, PMP, MBA | Technology Specialist - Reliability Services | Final Control

    Emerson Automation Solutions

    Richard.Ritter@Emerson.com

  • In reply to Richard L Ritter III:

    Richard,
    I assumed the Cv of the low bleed relay was significantly less than standard and that this may be causing the problem, but I have been trying to get things to work with the low bleed relays since there are a over a hundred valves involved and time is of the essence. I will try to get a relay A to install as a trial, and if there is a significant improvement will push for a plant wide change out (not sure if that will fly though). Can you advise if swapping out the relay is a simple swap out able to be carried out with the positioner in place, or if removal and return to the workshop is required.

    Regards
    JR
  • In reply to jeff richards:

    Hi Jeff,
    Relay change is very simple and easy. It is possible to do in the field without returning valve / unit to workshop. Please disconnect pneumatic line. By using user interface - take DVC "Out of Service", while swapping the relay. Open front DVC plastic cover. You will be able to see pneumatic relay. Open four screws and replace relay. Please refer Instruction manual or Quick start guide for details.
    Just curiosity, what was the reason to go for low bleed relay? Generally low bleed relay are supplied with DVC SIS tier for use in safety shut down SIF (Safety Instrumented Function) valves. It appears from discussions, you are using DVC for control applications.
    Thanks and let me know, if you need any further help.
    As suggested by Richie, It will be good to contact local office. If you could please advise me your geographical locations, I can assist in having Emerson local sales office to contact you on urgent basis.
  • In reply to jeff richards:

    JR,

    This may be done in the field IF in a safe environment (spark won’t start a fire, etc).

    You will take the valve completely offline and remove all electric and pneumatic power then open up the DVC and loosen four #2 Phillips screws and take the low bleed relay off the place the relay a in position. You will then use the handheld and walk through the setup of the positioned as when you replace any relay a new calibration must be performed. Please ensure to follow the instruction manual steps and follow all safety warnings. I look forward to hearing the results and for you all to stay safe while conducting this work.

    Regards,

    Richie

    Please send me an email at Richard.ritter@emerson.com and I can speak with you offline in approximately 1 hour

    Richard L Ritter III, PMP, MBA | Technology Specialist - Reliability Services | Final Control

    Emerson Automation Solutions

    Richard.Ritter@Emerson.com

  • In reply to Riyaz Ali:

    Ryaz
    Thank you for your response. We do indeed have the DVC low bleed relays on the SIS valves as well, and as a late comer to the project, am unsure as to why the low bleed selection was extended to control valves as well.
    Putting the low bleed relays on control valves has resulted in volume boosters being fitted to most control valves in order that associated valve stroking specifications speeds were met, and this has complicated the situation of trying to get good performance during modulating service.
    I will discuss with project personnel tomorrow to initiate contact with the local Emerson office and will contact you should we need assistance.

    Regards
    JR
  • In reply to Richard L Ritter III:

    Jeff,

    I just wanted to respond that me saying a lower Cv is not correct as I have not seen a distinct number on the exhausting Cv but as per Rayiz in this link www.emersonautomationexperts.com/.../ it is more appropriate to say,

    "Generally for control valves, dynamic air consumption is a more appropriate term. Since vendors cannot provide dynamic air consumption data as it is variable. Hence, only static air consumption is published. Static air consumption may be good for an on-off device or valves which are in one unique position all the time.

    Control valves are regulating devices and need to modulate quickly to meet newly computed controller setpoints to position the valve.

    Standard pneumatic relays or low-bleed pneumatic relays on the DVC6200 work on a mechanical balance beam design principle. This keeps an aggressive active condition to take any changes to generate new output based on a new setpoint issued by the DVC algorithm based on controller demand.

    As explained, both relay (standard and low bleed) will be responsive to 1/8% input span signal but due to the low volume of air, a low-bleed relay may be a little lethargic."

    Thanks and hopefully this has helped.

    Richie

    Richard L Ritter III, PMP, MBA | Technology Specialist - Reliability Services | Final Control

    Emerson Automation Solutions

    Richard.Ritter@Emerson.com

  • Be careful not to overspecify the valve stroking speed requirements. Some specifications use the flange (inch) size in seconds to determine the required speed.
    For the very most of applications a slow response is fine (for example temperature or level control, usually slow systems with large process time constants that can easily accept a 'slow' valve response).
    Only in few applications such as liquid pressure control is stroke speed important. Often those applications use small sized valves which can be made fast enough without too much complication.
    Keep it simple (and reliable).
    And for those few anti-surge applications only opening speed is important. Of course using a single acting actuator, relieving air pressure from the actuator can be done with a quick-exhaust valve, you don't need the complication of a complex valve booster.

    Frans Martens

    ‘The Other Ways’

    Consultant Field Instrumentation and Systems

    The Netherlands

  • In reply to Frans Martens, owner of The Other Ways consultancy:

    Frans,
    Thanks for the reply. Yes we are dealing with over zealous specification of stroking speeds and then putting low bleed positioners on. As a result, we have boosters on everthing, except the vendor has been very exacting and put a booster on only one side of the piston in some cases. Not sure how that seemed like a good idea.

    Add to that, during commissioning, the assumption was that a stroke test was all that was required, no performance tuning of the positioner.

    We now have a remedisl work program im place.

    Regards

    Jeff r
  • In reply to Frans Martens, owner of The Other Ways consultancy:

    Frans,
    Thankyou for the reply, unfortunately i am dealing with everything you advise to be careful of. We do have a remedial work program in hand now, so sll will be good in time.

    Regards

    Jeff r