• Not Answered

Periodic I/O output failures

We are getting a consistent group of I/O output failure events relating to one module that occurs exactly every  eight hours at 06:22, 14:22 and 22:22. An example of each group is as follows:

Time

Delta (s)

 

14:23:11

0

Water split I/O output failure error

14:23:13

2

Error cleared

14:25:30

137

Water split I/O output failure error

14:25:32

2

Error cleared

14:27:50

138

Steam split I/O output failure error

14:27:54

4

Error cleared

14:29:52

118

Steam split I/O output failure error

14:29:55

3

Error cleared

Water split and Steam split are linked composites each containing two AO blocks. Although the event says the I/O output failure relates to the composite itself, I guess they are originating as Output failures on the AO blocks inside. As you can see each failure lasts a few seconds and I am assuming that each one relates to one of the AO blocks. There is is about 2 minutes between the errors on each AO block.

At the moment I have no idea what might be causing this. Any ideas as to things that happen every eight hours on such a regular pattern? There is no function blocks relating to chronological time in the module. It is a fairly simple PID control module. This is DeltaV version 13.3.1 with the latest hotfixes.

8 Replies

  • I am still trying to get to the bottom of this. For a while the errors became more random then settled back to occurring every eight hours but in two groups. Two questions someone may know the answer to.

    What is an I/O output failure?

    I thought it corresponded to the IO Ouptut Error bit in the MERROR parameter and was due to a problem communicating with an output channel. However I filtered the Event Chronicle for "I/O output failure" and found two other modules that had regular I/O Output failures. In one module the DESC1 field in Event Chronicle suggested the error origintated from an ACTION function block and another module, which has no I/O, where the I/O output failure was ascribed to a CALC block in an SFC composite.

    Could the "I/O output failure" be due to slow updating of outputs?

    The module that is of the most concern has four AO blocks each with a conventional M-Series output and a HART_SV readback. The scan rate is 1s. Andre Dicaire said in a post in 2020 that "Specifically, the Module must not write to an Output channel faster than the IO subsystem can process the output to the Output channel" Is this likely to be a problem with a 1s scan rate? I also read that HART updates can take 600ms at least. Would failure of the HART readback to update fast enought be classed as an I/O output failure or an input failure?

  • In reply to Cedric Dawnhawk:

    Yes, it's the scan rate. Increase the scan rate and there is a parameter called _timeout or something that is the time value before a block will automatically go into fault when it sees bad comms.

    This is defaulted to a zero. The timeout value can be found by searching for scan times in the books online.
  • In reply to LBDeltaV:

    Thanks for your response. I intend to increase the scan rate to 2s and see what difference it makes. However I have been unable to find anything about the "timeout" value. Any further clues as to where it is documented?

  • Hi Cedric,
    Did you do any upgrade in your system. When did these anomalies start.

  • In reply to Uchenna Oparaji:

    Thanks for your input.

    No there has been no upgrade.

    The errors became apparent when I installed a new module similar to ones we already have, but this one had four analogue outputs rather than two. An interlock condition monitors the IO Output Error bit in the MERROR parameter and so perodically the controller would trip. I then looked in Event Chronicle for this module and found the "I/O output failure" events. Later I did a search for "I/O output failure" events for all modules and discovered the two modules I mentioned above which seem to have regular errors and are totally unlike the new module I installed.
  • I think this new module maybe incompatible with the system though similar as you said. Try and check which serial number or model of IO can go with your system. Also you might need to check the registration of this IO module to find out how they are structured in the engineering project/program 

  • In reply to LBDeltaV:

    I would not think this is related to Module scan with module set to 1 second.  The local IO bus scans at a typical 30 to 50ms, with M series controllers having a minimum 20ms cycle.  Actual cycle depends on number and types of cards.  Outputs are written only when the module executes. With a 1 second module, your IO bus updates will have scanned 20 to 30 times.  Setting scan time to 2 seconds doesn't seem like the answer.  However, if there is some sort of timing issue in the system, changing the scan time will cause the module to be rescheduled in the controller and that might change some relationship that affects your observations.  But something else is at play here than just module scan time.

    On an AO channel, there is no time out value for communication.  I'm not sure what LBDeltaV is referring here.  Maybe LBDeltaV can provide some clarification on this?  

    You indicate the issue follows download of a similar module.  Any chance you've got duplicate IO references in the modules? I would start by investigating the modules.  As you discovered, IO Output Failure seems to be related to Expressions.  IO Failure is typically what is reported on IO related faults.

    When an expression performs and Assign statement, if this fails, you would get an IO Output Failure.  An Input Transfer error or Output Transfer Error relates to wired connections. Action blocks and SFC expressions don't have wired values for data flow. I'd be leaning towards an expression, especially one with some conditional logic that might only be true every eight hours or so?  

    Andre Dicaire

  • In reply to Andre Dicaire:

    Sorry I'm away for the holidays and I may have been to quick to my reply.
    I've experienced what sounds like this and it was the solved by increasing the scan time.
    The timeout value isn't on the AO channel but on the action block in your control module. I found the parameter by looking up information on scan rates in books online.