Chattering Alarms

Is there anyway or a tool to fix the chattering alarms? 

8 Replies

  • Please explain just what you mean by “chattering”.
     
    Do you mean alarms that come in and go out frequently?  If so, then you can do several things:

    A)     Put an On Delay on the alarm – that will delay triggering the alarm until the condition has been true for a set number of seconds (this requires Conditional Alarming to be enabled for that function block).

    B)     Increase the Alarm Hysteresis for that alarm if warranted – perhaps the value is set too low.

    C)     Verify and justify the alarm limit – perhaps the process is being expected to run too close to the alarm limit.

    D)     Validate the alarm itself – if operators are getting a frequent alarm on this point, but they have no expected action to take other than acknowledgement, then maybe there is no need for an alarm at all.

     
    Steve Elves | Control Systems Tech. 
    From: SAM [mailto:bounce-SAM@community.emerson.com]
    Sent: Monday, December 03, 2012 9:30 PM
    To: DeltaV@community.emerson.com
    Subject: [EE365 DeltaV Track] Chattering Alarms
     

    Is there anyway or a tool to fix the chattering alarms? 

  • In reply to Steve Elves:

    thank you Steve.

    Yes what I meant is alarms that come in and go out frequently. I’m going to try the first option which is  putting the alarm On Delay.    

  • In reply to SAM:

    is there a way to enable the Conditional Alarming at the same time to more than function block?

  • In reply to SAM:

    Could you provide some additional explanation of what you are trying to accomplish?  Typically alarms based on limits are only done in one block on a module.

    Gareld Butler

  • Conditional alarming is enabled/disabled on those function blocks that support alarming – such as the AI, PID, ALM, DC blocks – on a block-by-block basis.  You can also configure “external” logic (using CND blocks with ACT blocks or CALC blocks, with timers) to enable/disable alarms or delay annunciation.  I can’t be more specific without knowing the reason behind your question.
     
    Are you asking if there is a way to turn on Conditional Alarming in a number of existing modules all at once?
     
    Steve Elves | Control Systems Tech. 
    From: SAM [mailto:bounce-SAM@community.emerson.com]
    Sent: Tuesday, December 04, 2012 8:15 PM
    To: DeltaV@community.emerson.com
    Subject: RE: [EE365 DeltaV Track] Chattering Alarms
     

    is there a way to enable the Conditional Alarming at the same time to more than function block?

  • SAM,
    Putting an ON Delay may deteriorate your process safety. Consider an OFF
    Delay in cases where the alarm comes ON and OFF again-and-again. Better even
    consider a change in deadband, which can be alarm-specific (High, Low, etc)
    when conditional alarms is on.
    Maarten

    -----Oorspronkelijk bericht-----
    Van: SAM [mailto:bounce-SAM@community.emerson.com]
    Verzonden: dinsdag 04 december 2012 09:04
    Aan: DeltaV@community.emerson.com
    Onderwerp: RE: [EE365 DeltaV Track] Chattering Alarms

    thank you Steve.

    Yes what I meant is alarms that come in and go out frequently. I'm going to
    try the first option which is putting the alarm On Delay.

  • In reply to Maarten van der Waal:

    I agree with Maarten that you should first verify the Alarm Hysteresis (deadband) is appropriately set, and follow that by the alarm trip limit.  Is the alarm really needed?  Is there an operator action and time to respond defined?  Is there excessive noise in the signal, or is the control unstable?  

    The ON delay will prevent the nuisance alarm from appearing at all, and if it does, the alarm timestamp will be offset from the time the process crossed the limit.  If there is no action to be taken by the operator on a short deviation beyond the limit, then an ON Delay keeps the alarm from needlessly reporting.  If the chattering condition is to be treated as an alarm, and the operator is to respond, then an OFF delay is needed.

    The danger is in using the delays to mask an underlying propblem, maybe a sticky valve, or poorly designed installation or inadequate control, etc.  Similar to placing a heavy filter on the PV so the process looks stable.  masking the problem may be needed short term, but I'd strongly recommend a fix closest to the propblem.

    Andre Dicaire